Product Graph

Matt writes a new update to his article about Like.com after talking to ThisNext.  He makes a few interesting points I'd like to comment on.

a) He agrees that Like.com is ahead in key metrics like revenue and visitors.  So the core of my argument that we are wining on these metrics is not refuted by him.

b) He states that ThisNext being venture funded doesn't have to worry about revenue right now so instead let's just assess their progress on the quality of their vision.  This is just crap.  Like.com is completely venture funded also and hence has the same standard.  Visual search is no small vision either.  The only difference is that our team has decided that  you need to get off of living on venture capital sooner rather than later.  In fact, thisNext launched 1 year (I think) before Like.com so they should be farther along the maturity curve.  If we hit our target of breaking even by the end of 2008 it will be two years since we launched Like.com to break even.  Eventually  Matt and others should all hold ThisNext to the standard of revenue and profitability.  If they don't eventually the market and investors will (especially with a downturn coming).

c) Gordon the CEO of ThisNext states that social shopping does make sense in the form of recommendations, reviews, and friend's opinions.  My data shows that this is less important in many soft goods categories than in hard goods.  Are you really going to read a review of that tie before you buy it?  Are you really going to read a review of dress pants before you buy it.  It is just not as important as it is for a digital camera.  ThisNext 1.0 didn't work (I believe due to this).  We'll see about ThisNext 2.0

Probably the most interesting thing he said is that ThisNext is going to try this new product graph concept.  I don't know exactly their definition of it, but in a way visual search has already created an algorithmic product graph.  We have shown what products are linked (via visual similarity) to each other and which match to each other.  There may still be room for a social product graph, but to date a few apps on Facebook have tried (notably Glimpse) and that hasn't work.

In the end time will tell.  If 3 or 6 months from ThisNext is still selling vision only (and not metrics), I will not be impressed.

One irony here is that there are probably other folks this next would consider closer competitors than Like.com and vis a versa. 

Comments

[Nik]

Munjal,

I really respect what you have done with Like and even previously with Riya.

However, I am not able to understand why its necessary to focus on if Like is making more money or getting more traffic than ThisNext. I can understand arguments about which product drives more value to users but why so much back and forth between who is making more money?

E.g. In TC's comments, you mention that you are willing to share your revenue numbers with TC and even VentureBeat. Why would you do that? What purpose does it serve? Who does it benefit? Isn't it the opposite that ThisNext continues to focus on traffic and you don't correct their wrong (in your opinion) behavior, since a potential competitor would continue to follow a disastrous (in your opinion) strategy of focusing on traffic and be out of business.

Please dont take this the wrong way? As an entrepreneur, I am just curious how this line of discussion would help in the core objective of building a successful business.

Does it help in getting buzz about the company which in turn helps in attracting more employees? Perhaps better valuations for down the round funding?

Nik

[Thibault]

Your blog has always been a source of inspiration for entrepreneurs like me and a very interesting insight into your promising startup. However, I don't think that directly attacking a competitor is a fair attitude and that Like.com will benefit from it overall...

Best regards, and keep on blogging :)

[Zaid]

I am with Munjal on this one.

Valley startups have no shortage of "beautiful vision". But the execution counts. And it is fair to say that Like.com has started delivering while ThisNext remains to be seen. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Fred]

I agree with Munjal 100%. Businesses that can't turn a profit or generate significant revenues are going to fail. This always has been, and always will be, the case. How much venture funding does any company have that they can afford not to worry about revenue? If you're doing something really really groundbreaking, I can see it. But neither Like.com nor ThisNext.com promise to do anything ground breaking, they're just making it easier to do stuff we already do.

[Munjal Shah]

Nik & Thibault,

It is not so much about ThisNext. It is more of an example. I just think reporters and entrepreneurs need to shift to a revenue driven metric. Yes if I say nothing others will fail and I will succeed, but a declining market is bad for all. If lots of Web 2.0 companies fail it will make my hiring more difficult even if we are succeeding. I saw this in 2000 and 2001. I'm just trying to reframe the argument a little.

[Loy]

Lame. I thought your company was done with, surprised to see it still exists.

[Zan]

You can start making some real money by releasing a consumer product to identify people on the vast number of pictures we all have on our computers that we don't want to put on the internet. I would gladly pay $100 for such a product.

[Berna Erol]

Munjal, as much as I like being able to search likeness of things and as a vision researcher I could appreciate the coolness of it, as a woman and frequent online shopper I will have to agree that recommendations, reviews, and friend's opinions counts a lot. Yes even for clothes and shoes. Does the clothing true to the size, does the material comfortable, does the shoe make squishy noise when I walk, does it comfortable to wear… So many things I can use opinions of others. Target.com is one of the best examples of such interaction that I use quite frequently. Collective intelligence of your shoppers combined with your powerful algorithm would be the way to go.

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[Philip wilkinson]

I agree - a shopping site should be one of the easiest things to monetize! The issue thisnext has is that people tag products from sites they have no commercial relationship with. Anyone envy having to convince bobsplantshop.com to pay a CPC rate for 10 clicks a week...?

[Mardi]

I found this site from shoe ads in Facebook. I keep clicking them to see if you've added a size search - and am completely amazed that you still haven't. You have every search under the sun - but size. It's no end of frustrating for me because I have an 11 Narrow foot - and many companies stop at size 10 or don't have widths. So - let me know when you add a size search and I'll start clicking through on your ads - or maybe I'll just keep clicking through to make you pay FB so it stays alive longer.

[Praveen]

HI Munjal,

I am wondering why there isn't a like.com plugin for firefox or IE, something similar to a stumbleupon. User looks at a webpage, likes a product and then looks for similar products on like.com. Isn't this obvious?

I am a fan of Riya and the vision of like.com.

Good luck,
Praveen.

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Sincerely,
J.Z. Palmer

[Jessica]

I love to buy good shoes! You can call me shoes-a-holic! I love anything that could help me to buy better shoes and better value for the money!

[sean]

I have created a new product called SKATE-AID for skateboard shoes that prevent skater's from getting holes in there shoes. There is nothing like it in the world. They are the new thing for skateboarders. Would shoes.com like to cary skate-aid? Would you like to sponor SKATE-AID website by having a banner or a link to shoes.com? Check it all out at www.skateaid.us

[Sid]

So how come you have stopped developer support for Riya APIs?

[Pratik]

Munjal,

PLEASE STOP sending misleading sales emails / SPAM to businesses with the implied notion that somehow the target company has failed w/in certain shopping portals and that Like.com somehow has a magic elixir for increased ROAS -- in part b/c there is something wrong with the way the companies are operating their SEM. To wit: "we have been sending traffic from Shopzilla to broken links" and that "we need to work with you to gain a better ROAS."

What type of nonsense is this?

This is not only misleading but fraudulent.

[Tim]

Your wesite has Vasque Wasatch GTX boots listed as discounted to the price of $152.96, but at the check-out window the price is somewhat higher. Please explain
this differance to me. Thanks

[Navneet Jadhav]

Hi,

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www.contentxn.com

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[Henk Poley]

What happend with Riya and Like.com the past year?

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